Kalb Report: Will Trump’s impeachment damage democracy?

Gil Klein

December 06, 2019

Coming directly to the National Press Club from testifying at the House impeachment hearing on Wednesday, George Washington University legal scholar Jonathan Turley told The Kalb Report that the process for impeachment is moving too quickly and threatens to “tear the country apart.”

George Washington University legal scholar Jonathan Turley told The Kalb Report that the process for impeachment is moving too quickly and threatens to “tear the country apart.” Photo by Alan Kotok

Yet Turley, who was called as a witness by Republicans on the committee, said what President Trump has done is worthy of impeachment for abuse of power.

“I have always said that he can (be impeached),” Turley said. “Those are unassailable facts. My problem is how this is being done.”

Democrats should wait a court ruling ordering Trump to comply with Congress’ subpoenas, Turley said. Then, Congress will either get the information it needs to persuade more of the country of Trump’s culpability, or, if he still refuses, it will show the country that he is personally responsible for defying the law, he said.

Without that, he said, the process is doomed to failure because the country is so adamantly and evenly split.

The 100th Kalb Report panel on Dec. 4, 2019, discussed impeachment and American democracy. Photo by Alan Kotok.

Turley joined Nina Totenberg, NPR’s legal affairs correspondent, and Pete Williams, NBC News justice correspondent as guests of moderator Marvin Kalb to discuss whether hyper-partisan politics would propel the nation into a constitutional crisis.

This marked the 100th program in the Kalb Report series that began in September, 1994. It was planned weeks in advance without knowing that Turley would be making headlines all day while testifying before Congress.

All three guests agreed this was not a constitutional crisis because the Constitution was written by people who were aware that a democratic government would face this kind of stress.

Pete Williams, NBC News justice correspondent, joined moderator Marvin Kalb to talk about whether the nation was headed into a constitutional crisis fueled by hyper-partisan politics. Photo by Alan Kotok

“The answer is 'no' we are not in a constitutional crisis,” Williams said. “None of the things that have happened so far is extra-constitutional. In fact, what happened today is following the text of the Constitution.”

When one examines the three impeachment threats in American history, Totenberg said, one sees that they were political crises, not constitutional crises.

With Republicans and Democrats now far more ideologically deadlocked than they were at the time of Watergate or the Clinton impeachment, she said, breaking the political crisis becomes more difficult.

Waiting for a judge to rule the Trump administration must comply with congressional subpoenas could take a year, Totenberg and Williams said.

Nina Totenberg, NPR’s legal affairs correspondent, explains the standards for impeachment at Kalb Report on Wednesday, Dec. 4. Photo by Alan Kotok

Republicans insist that Trump has done nothing illegal, Kalb said.

“You don’t have to do something illegal to be impeached," Totenberg said. “It has to be a high crime and misdemeanor.”

What a regular person could do would not be illegal, she said, but it would be impeachable if the president did it.

“Would it be impeachable (for the president) to do something with American foreign policy that is not in the national interest, that is not in the interest in your ally, but in your own political interest," she asked.

Added Williams, “Suppose the president said, ‘I want more than one wife, so I am going to Saudi Arabia, and I’ll run the presidency from there and keep in touch by tweet, and I’ll get back to you.’ That’s clearly not illegal, but no one would say it is not an impeachable offense.”

The entire program can be seen below.

The Kalb Report is a joint project of the National Press Club’s Journalism Institute, University of Maryland Global Campus, the George Washington University School of Media and Public Affairs, Harvard University’s Shorenstein Center, the Gaylord College of Journalism at the University of Oklahoma, and the Philip Merrill College of Journalism at the University of Maryland. It is underwritten by a grant from Ethics and Excellence in Journalism Foundation, and Maryland Public Television serves as the presenting station for national distribution.

Photos

Photo Credit: Alan Kotok Kalb Report executive producer and National Press Club vice-president Michael Freedman welcomes audience members.

Photo Credit: Alan Kotok Kalb Report panel, L-R: NBC News Justice Correspondent Pete Williams, NPR Legal Affairs Correspondent Nina Totenberg, moderator Marvin Kalb, and George Washington University law professor Jonathan Turley

Photo Credit: Alan Kotok George Washington University law professor Jonathan Turley explains why Democrats in the House of Representatives need a stronger case for impeachment.

Photo Credit: Alan Kotok Moderator Marvin Kalb listens to NPR Legal Affairs Correspondent Nina Totenberg describing threats to the Constitution from actions by the Administration.

Photo Credit: Alan Kotok NPR Legal Affairs Correspondent Nina Totenberg explains how the Supreme Court may deal with issues between the Trump Administration and the House of Representatives.

Photo Credit: Alan Kotok Moderator Marvin Kalb listens to a response from George Washington University law professor Jonathan Turley.

Photo Credit: Alan Kotok NBC News Justice Correspondent Pete Williams describes how the demise of newspapers and emergence of online news has changed audience reading patterns.

Photo Credit: Alan Kotok The panel and audience watch a video of a famous 1954 broadcast by CBS News anchor Edward R. Murrow attacking Senator Joseph McCarthy.

Photo Credit: Alan Kotok An audience member asks a question to the panel.

Photo Credit: Alan Kotok Audience members take a picture with Nina Totenberg.

Kalb Report: Will Trump’s impeachment damage democracy?

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